"107689,
I don't understand what you are trying to say here, your post holds two
contradictions in terms of this thread. Could you explain in a more simple
manner please.
spud"
I don't know what contradictions you are speaking of. Simply - you and everyone else on the planet are each an eternal spirit - in a body. You as spirit took a body and when your body dies your spirit will continue on. There are loads of people who believe this through their experiences - I'm not alone.
All you have to do to experience yourself as spirit is to learn a meditation that allows you to turn within and experience grounding and activating your energy system/chakras. I can't convince you - you have to experience yourself as spirit by yourself - without any gurus or swamis. You are your own guru.
"Please don't assume I want to believe as you, or that I need a guru
or such to tell me what to believe.
To meditate is a function of the mind and body, to try and separate your
'spirit' from your mind and body is a contradiction, as you would have no sense
of the spirit, without the mind and body.
I choose not to separate, but to experience and observe on all levels, (I'm
still learning though).
spud"
I'm not asking anyone to believe me. Spirit is separate from mind/intellect, they are completely different - period. The only one who can convince you - is you. These are not my beliefs. These things are what I know through my own personal experiences and the experiences of many others who practice the grounding and shakra meditations that I do.
We are each drawn to what we can allow ourselves to have. Body has finite limits. Spirit is limitless. Experience (actually rediscover) yourself as spirit and you will learn for yourself.
Spud - I'm still learning too. The more I learn the more I find what I don't know. However, what I practice and experience has carried me through thick (very thick) and thin and has leveled out the highs and lows. If it were not for what I've found so far, I'd be dead through alcohol (I still drink a bit, am not an alcoholic - but was headed in that direction) or the drugs that they tried to push on me many years ago. Every day is a new learning experience. Every person I meet is a new learning experience - and yes, you are learning too. I accept that and I accept that everyone else is learning too - though I've been a very slow learner at times. lol
So - where does Christianity fit into all of this? Well I've posted just a little of the teachings of Jesus that I believe but more importantly I communicate with him daily. You and everyone else can do the same. He is a tremendous healing presence when you ask him to be with you.
"To say that mind, body and spirit are separate is to state a belief
in such, therefore it is your belief, although this may be part of a larger
belief system, such as christianity. This, by no means, invalidates your
experiences, its merely a contradiction in terms.
spud"
No spud, it is not a contradiction of terms - that is your belief. That is a limit that you have placed on yourself. The fact that mind/thoughts/intellect are separate from spirit is my experience, not my beliefs. To just know is very different than "believing," and that's what I know.
"The idea of mind/body and spirit is just an observed separation but is not separate per se no more than the forms of rain, steam and ice are different. it is the same connectedness taking on the "appearance" of many forms. Same is true in the mind, body, spirit paradigm. The key thing for people to explore is that they are all functioning metaphors derived out of thought and it is thought that we create reality with. We could create it any way. What we see as our collective world view could have gone an infinite amount of other projections based on infinite potential."
What you have written is simply not true. Your concepts of "infinite potential" are not true either. This reality and this world are finite and so are our bodies. Within our bodies resides a separate entity - the spirit, which has come into this reality to learn and grow. You cannot experience spirit by reading a book, listening to a teacher or thinking about it or rationalizing it.
You cannot make spirit out of matter, and spirit does not on its own, have matter. Also, there are zillions of entities without bodies not only within this reality, but elsewhere as well. They don't exist in the demons or angels category, but are just as different as people here on the planet. There are those who are here to assist, and there are those who are here to screw things up and loads and loads of them somewhere in between.
Read about NDEs or talk to or ask questions of someone who has had one.
Here's an excellent post on CZ by rudenski who often speaks of his NDE.
His recent post here of his experience is what I believe, except you don't have
to have a NDE to rediscover your self as spirit.
http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1531795#i
By the way, rudenski is very open to discussing his experience right here on CZ.
Debate
To engage in combat for; to strive for.
To contend for in words or arguments; to strive to maintain by reasoning; to dispute; to contest; to discuss; to argue for and against.
To engage in strife or combat; to fight.
To contend in words; to dispute; hence, to deliberate; to consider; to discuss or examine different arguments in the mind; -- often followed by on or upon.
A fight or fighting; contest; strife.
Contention in words or arguments; discussion for the purpose of elucidating truth or influencing action; strife in argument; controversy; as, the debates in Parliament or in Congress.
-------
I do not expect anything. I am making the point that argument, fighting and strife which you are supporting - I am not.