Ahh, I see. Thanks for giving me the lowdown. I have an idea who the person is actually.
I am not the only person who has debunked, nor has been debunking, the myth of "liver flushing". That is just one more of a long line of misleading claims made by you know who!
I did, however, see the exact "saponified olive oil" claim in a supposedly-well-regarded book that I own: the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine by Murray and Pizzorno. It really irked me to see the claim there, because here are two guys who are supposed to be experts, publishing what is supposed to be authoritative advice on natural medicine, meanwhile a layperson like me has definitive evidence that they are wrong.
Actually they are experts and they are not wrong. The evidence that "liver flushing" is a fraud is overwhelming and has been presented repeatedly unlike proof that those big squishy blobs are real gallstones. If people wish to believe in fairy tales such as "liver flushing" that is up to them. But people need to be presented with the real facts as well so they can look at the evidence and decide for themselves.
You're right. It seems this guy doesn't want to tackle any real questions but prefers to speak down to everyone as some kind of authority figure yet totally unscientific and un experienced in his personal dogma.
For someone who claims to have debunked these cleanses he certainly hasn't done so today. When people claim that the discussion is over you know they can't hold up their end of the discussion.
I find it interesting how you keep repeating yourself over and over even though what you are saying is not true. The evidence has been presented numerous times that the flushes are quackery. You have yet to supply even a shred of evidence that what people are passing are real gallstones. Why is that? You don't have any evidence? You are hoping that if you get me to respond enough that the evidence will get buried in the thread? You are trying to wear me down so I will go away? You just like playing childish games? Really, I would like to hear your answer as to why you have totally ignored the indisputable evidence that has been presented while refusing to provide any real evidence to the contrary to back your claims. And why do you keep asking the same questions over and over that I have already answered? Did you simply not understand the answers? Or did you simply refuse to look at them just like you have refused to look at all the solid evidence that I presented that the flushes are quackery? Which is it?
"I find it interesting how you keep repeating yourself over and over even though what you are saying is not true. The evidence has been presented numerous times that the flushes are quackery. You have yet to supply even a shred of evidence that what people are passing are real gallstones. Why is that?"
I find it interesting that you do exactly what you have just stated above...Why is that? Why the hypocritical rhetoric?
LOL!!! I have posted all sorts of evidence that "liver flushing" is quackery. So how is that hypocritical? Is this what "liver flushing" does to people? It prevents them form seeing evidence that is put right in front of them over and over?
"Really, I would like to hear your answer as to why you have totally ignored the indisputable evidence that has been presented while refusing to provide any real evidence to the contrary to back your claims."
Your evidence is hardly indisputable and your statements and comments are in disrepute to anyone using simple logic.
You say it is not indisputable, yet you and #143595 have failed to provide any real evidence yet to dispute any of the evidence that I have presented over and over that "liver flushing" is bogus. Why is that? Apparently my evidence is indisputable since neither of you have been able to debunk my evidence
"And why do you keep asking the same questions over and over that I have already answered?"
If you call dodging the question
So answering the question is "dodging" the questions? You should send me your address so I can send you a real dictionary for Christmas. Apparently you don't understand simple definitions for some of the words you are using.
an answer then you have fulfilled your statement. Your evidence is neither solid nor comprehensive.
Then why have you yet to debunk even a single piece of evidence I have presented? Maybe you need that dictionary to look up what "debunk" means while looking up the real definition of "dodging". When you look up the real definition you will find that you have been hypocritical for demanding evidence from me while dodging my requests for your evidence to the contrary.
"LOL!!! I have posted all sorts of evidence that "liver flushing" is quackery. So how is that hypocritical? Is this what "liver flushing" does to people? It prevents them form seeing evidence that is put right in front of them over and over?"
Se there you go again, denigrating people who do not have your world view.
You mean like you have been doing. Is that what you were referring to earlier about being hypocritical?
I have seen your evidence, and so far I have found it lacking.
And yet as I keep pointing out you have yet to debunk even a single bit of it. Why is that? Because my evidence is undisputable since I actually understand how the body really works?
I have experienced real results from liver flushes which cannot be disputed.
Chemotherapy can make a person with cancer feel better. Does that mean it works or that it is safe?
What is really in question is whether or not those big, green, squishy blobs that are larger than a real gallstone can pass through the bile ducts are really gallstones. So far you and your cohorts have yet to provide even the slightest bit of evidence that they are. Again, why is that? Don't you have any evidence at all to back your claims?
I was sick, I did a Liver Flush and got better, almost immediately. Perhaps a stone was lodged and then it got dislodged, because if a flush and lodge a stone then it can also dislodge a stone.
Or maybe you had stagnant bile the oil got moving, or it was the laxative effect, or....... That is not evidence that you passed a real gallstone.
It's simple logic, and if you can't understand that...well that's your problem I guess.
No, that is assumption and denial of the real facts. Samples of simple logic are in my statements in this post and the overwhelming evidence I have provided that the flushes are bogus. Evidence that still has yet to be debunked by you or any other flush supporter.
That is the evidence needed, you have provided me with the evidence that liver flushes do indeed affect the gall bladder and billary ducts and do have the potential to affect change on a persons digestion.
LOL!!! I never said the oil would not affect the gallbladder nor the digestive system, which is part of the digestive system. But let me give you another piece of simple logic, the gallbladder IS NOT the liver!!! The fact that the flush supporters call it is "liver flush" instead of a "gallbladder flush" is solid proof of how ignorant they are about the whole topic to begin with!!! This is further evidenced by the claim that the liver can make audible gurgling noises:
And that it is contradictory that a "liver flush" could cause a stone to lodge as you claimed here:
Your lack of knowledge about human anatomy and physiology is quite clear. You really ought to get an anatomy and physiology book and study in depth before posting anymore so you will not embarrass yourself so bad any more with ridiculous claims like those.
"That is not evidence that you passed a real gallstone."
I never said that it was, whats your point? Are you trying to frame the debate to fit into your narrow explanation?
More games by the LF supporters. The debate has ALWAYS been whether or not those big green and squishy blobs are in fact gallstones. Of course they are not, which proves the "liver flushes" do not work since the claim in the first place was that these blobs were real gallstones. At least you are finally admitting that they may not be real gallstones, so you on the road to reality finally.
"And that it is contradictory that a "liver flush" could cause a stone to lodge as you claimed here:..."
Your comments are contradictory that is a fact there is plenty of evidence of such contradictions made by you in the archives of this forum.
LOL!!! Yet you are unable to provide even one example. Must be hard on you to be exposed when you keep making up false claims.
"LOL!!! I never said the oil would not affect the gallbladder nor the digestive system, which is part of the digestive system."
Here is what I (befurther)said, I never stated to the contrary
"That is the evidence needed, you have provided me with the evidence that liver flushes do indeed affect the gall bladder and billary ducts and do have the potential to affect change on a persons digestion."
"But let me give you another piece of simple logic, the gallbladder IS NOT the liver!!! The fact that the flush supporters call it is "liver flush" instead of a "gallbladder flush" is solid proof of how ignorant they are about the whole topic to begin with!!!..."
Once again you are framing HERE^. I never said the gall bladder was the liver, you are creating a "strawman"
by misrepresentation of my position.
You still don't get the simple fact that the whole question boils down to whether or not the "liver flushes" really expel large gallstones, or if those big green squishy blobs are soap stones. The claims made by the LF supporters are that they are "passing thousands of stones". Or "passing cups of stones". Or are passing marble sized stones and larger. Of course all of these are physically impossible, and the lab results as well as simple descriptions of what has been passed prove these are not gallstones. Thus proof that the "liver flushes" DO NOT work. There was never any question of whether or not ingesting a lot of oil would affect the gallbladder or other parts of the digestive system. That only came up when you started twisting things being said since you could not provide any evidence to debunk the indisputable facts I presented. If you think I am wrong then please show the post where I clearly claimed that ingesting oil does not affect the gallbladder or other parts of the digestive system. Give you a hint, they do not exist because I NEVER made those claims. They are simply a figment of your imagination created since you have nothing real or substantial to come back with to counter my evidence.
"Your lack of knowledge about human anatomy and physiology is quite clear. You really ought to get an anatomy and physiology book and study in depth before posting anymore so you will not embarrass yourself so bad any more with ridiculous claims like those."
You have no idea about my knowledge of human anatomy or physiology.Your comment is a "superior knowledge fallacy."
Actually your posts clearly show your lack of knowledge of human anatomy and physiology. For example, you still call this a "liver flush" when it is not flushing the liver. And you did not realize that there are bile ducts that can be plugged by real gallstones coming from the gallbladder, which by the way is why they are called "gallstones". So you have been your own worst enemy by showing your lack of knowledge of actual human anatomy and physiology. Still my favorite was the belief that the liver can make audible gurgling sounds because it contains valves, ROTFLMAO!!! Still waiting for you "proof" of this ludicrous claim.
There is ample evidence for the protocol. People have seen the immediate arresting or remediation of symptoms following some particularly successful flushes.
Once again that IS NOT evidence. The claim of "liver flushing" is that the flushes are flushing gallstones out of the GALLBLADDER, which IS NOT the liver. The fact that they LF supporters do not know the difference between the liver and the gallbladder says a lot right there.
So where is the evidence that those big squishy blobs are really gallstones? The LF supporters have been asked for this evidence over an over and over, but all they come back with is excuses or they change the topic or wording to avoid having to provide the proof.
As far as symptoms disappearing that is not proof that "liver flushing" works. Again chemotherapy can reduce or even temporarily eliminate cancer. Does that mean it is effective? Of course not. Cocaine can make people feel better. Does that mean it is safe and medicinal? Of course not. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs can eliminate symptoms, but they can also cause liver or kidney failure, aseptic meningitis, loss of vision, joint and bone deterioration, tinnitus, etc. Are these still safe and effective just because they eliminate some symptoms?
Again, feeling better is not proof that large gallstones are actually being expelled, which is what has been questioned. So if you really want to prove that "liver flushing" works then provide proof that those big squishy green blobs are truly gallstones. So far not one LF supporter has been able to do this for a simple reason. Because "liver flushing" is a scam!!! And the more the "liver flush" supporters try to argue and twist things instead of providing the proof to their claims the more they simply prove that the "liver flushes" are quackery. So the ball is in your court, let's see the proof that those big blobs are really gallstones as the LF supporters keep falsely claiming.
James, you know I love you, in a way that's illegal in several states...
But aren't you conceding here that the main thing you take issue with is the name "Liver Flush?" If this forum was called the "Bile Purging Forum," wouldn't you have much less of a bone to pick? So much time and energy expended in these threads.
You've already conceded that sludge builds up in the biliary system. The protocol in question causes bile to be expelled in larger quantities and at a faster rate than it otherwise would be. And because of this, people's livers and gallbladders are less congested. VeRy SiMpLe. Years of ignorance and unhealthy diet/lifestyles are being made up for.
Sure, it's possible that a true stone could get lodged in a duct. But that's extremely rare. And if someone has taken preparatory and precautionary measures (ultrasound of the area, days/weeks of debris softening, etc) the odds of a stone lodging are even more miniscule. Is the risk any greater than taking a Tylenol? People can accomplish in one flush what it takes weeks of bitters to accomplish. Many people here just don't have the time. There is a sense of urgency. Some people are flirting with cancer, and other things.
Anyway, my two cents. I've gotta go. Gotta drink my OO and GF juice.