Feeling like death today 
onedaysoon
12 y
3,026
MoreI'm starting on around week 3 of my herbal parasite cleanse, until my meds get here. Been doing my NB program as well. Have had some ups and downs. Felt pretty good the past few days, although with some fatigue. yesterday I did a warm water enema, drank some coconut water, had all my pills. This morning I was scheduled to up my dose of cloves(kills the parasite eggs) to 1500 mg. I took all of these and as the morning went on I was feeling more and more weak and fatigued.
I feel almost trapped in my body I'm so tired. Took a little nap and feel maybe 10% better.
So do you guys think this is die off, or is it the enema, or could I be overdoing it with the herbs or my supplements? Also, I've had some organic ground beef the past couple of days. I'm allergic to beef but usually a little organic beef doesn't bother me. Could it be just from the beef?
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- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
3,285
This is a reply to # 2,057,433Hi Onedaysoon- Considering you are on the 3rd week of the parasite cleanse I am assuming this is from die-off. Can you please post what dosages of herbs you are presently taking. Are you still doing the zymex?
A helminth infection causes alot of die-off. They are large and spew their toxins when they die. When you discover a worm then you know there are probably hundreds more to come out. I always knew when a worm died because I would feel VERY tired, weak, body aches, chills and usually low mood. Relief usually came with a bm or enema.
However the NB protocol on it's own can be very challenging so it is hard to say exactly what is causing what. When I was in Mexico doing the really intensive cleansing I took a month off of the NB supps. I was told to do this by my doc down there. I just focused on cleaning out and doing a plain water enema each day. The water enemas were never a problem for me but who knows about others.
parasite cleansing is not an easy thing to do but necessary if you want to get well. I just started my 6 day course of mebendazole as the full moon is coming up. I really understand the importance of staying cleaned out. After this I will continue with the lyme herbs and nightly enzymes for another 2 weeks. The difference is I don't really get much die-off anymore as my parasitic load is very low.
The parasite support forum can also provide additional support.
Hang in there!
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
2,975
This is a reply to # 2,057,481Thanks, Onwards. I think you're right, it must be die off. Right now I am doing around 600 mg of Wormwood , 1500 mg of cloves, 4 drops of extra strength Black-Walnut tincture. I have been doing the zymex, except for the last couple of mornings when I've forgotten, but other than that, quite regularly.
Other than my digestive stuff the only NB supps I am taking are some magnesium (powdered and I do about 300 mg a day) and 1-2 manganese b12 which is kind of the equivalent to limcomin.
i don't want to stop the magnesium since it seems to helping everything to keep moving and it's helping me sleep. But perhaps I should lay off the manganese b12 for a while.
I broke down and took some advil for the pain this afternoon and I am feeling a little bit better. The aches and fatigue are still there, but slightly more bearable.
I thought the warm water enema would make me feel better, as it usually does, so I was surprised when I didn't. But, maybe the die off is to great.
It's good to know you had similar reactions when you first started. Sorry you had to go through that, but very grateful that you share your experience.
I have posted a couple of times over on the parasite board but I haven't found the support there to be all that great.Plus, they don't have the NB piece of the puzzle either. I might give it a go again though, thanks.- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
3,402
This is a reply to # 2,057,525Hmmm...that's not alot of Wormwood or Black-Walnut . I most often took about 2000mg per day of Wormwood and did 2 tablspns of Black-Walnut every week. The cloves look about right. I'm not sure if this low dose of herbs is what is causing your symptoms.
I went by the Clark dosing chart but never quit at the 21 days but just kept going.
//www.curezone.org/clark/parasites.asp
- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
2,949
This is a reply to # 2,057,548I'm only on day 5 of the clark schedule though and I'm taking it pretty slow since I've had some bad reactions. Before I was taking Standard Process Wormwood complex.
I was wondering if it was the cloves since this is the largest amount of herb I'm taking.- Re: Feeling like death today Marie64
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
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- Re: Feeling like death today Marie64
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
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- Re: Feeling like death today AskBella
12 y
2,932
This is a reply to # 2,057,433This is where I was before I started NB and realized I was in burnout.
I was Liver Flushing and parasite cleansing on the clark program, and several times I thought I was dying.
I never once saw a single parasite except for ONE "Grain of rice"-looking thing that people on curezone said was probably a parasite.
But to this day after all the enemas, etc, I still haven't seen a single thing and doubt I have them.
But the clark program? My god that was harsh. I totally crashed from it in the end.- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
3,083
This is a reply to # 2,057,597hi bella,
it is rough going. I'm glad you don't have parasites. they are terrible. i definitely have them though, as evidenced by piles of worms coming out of me. so, I'll just have to keep going with it and do the best i can.- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
2,927
- Re: Feeling like death today AskBella
12 y
2,903
This is a reply to # 2,057,620Hope you feel better soon Oneday-
I think you're doing the right thing then. The die off is rough.- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
3,055
This is a reply to # 2,057,726Feeling a little bit better so far today. Slept a lot last night, but so far I am just taking it really easy and not doing much today.
Onwards, I should revise the amount of cloves I'm taking. It's 1500 mg 3xper day, not 1500 per day. I'm so grateful for your story. I've been combing through the posts here on CZ and there seem to be a lot of horror stories about parasites and people never really getting better from them, and also about people's hair falling out from albendazole, which scares me because mine is already thinning. It's not noticeable to most, but I can tell I'm losing more than what's normal.
I'm wondering if a lot of them aren't really getting better because they are not taking care of their bodies with diet and supplements, like us who are doing NB. I'm hoping that the past year and a half of doing NB is giving me an advantage over these bugs.
Onwards, you had mentioned that you didn't think the strength of herbs I'm taking is large enough to create die off. But before I even started taking the herbs I was noticing worms dying and coming out here and there, just in very small amounts, where I wasn't even sure that's what they were at the time, but now I'm certain.
I'm hoping this is because my body is getting healthy enough to create an inhospitable environment for them.
I just want to be on the other side of this. Some days I feel very optimistic and others not so much.
Thank you, again for everyone's well wishes. I'm so hoping after I get rid of these bugs my hair test is just going to really improve.- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
3,051
This is a reply to # 2,057,744Onedaysoon- Ridding the body of parasites is not an easy task. parasites are tenacious and will do whatever to continue to survive. Obviously you were not able to eliminate them using NB alone for 1.5 years because the worms will just eat whatever food and supps we give them and they will thrive. If you read through my older posts you will see that I would get rid of most of them over a 6 month period and then get re-infested because I never stayed on a strong enough maintenance program. I think this happens to most people. It has to be ongoing. This is also why I know that I also have to stay on digestive enzymes. The other reason some don't recover is because of the biofilm.
Don't be discouraged but be grateful that you have discovered them. I think there are many, many chronically ill people who have no clue that they have bad chronic infections. Many look high and low for some treatment or supplement to cure themselves and all they really need is to do is treat their chronic infections. Dr.Klinghart who works with chrinically ill people claims that everyone with a chronic illness is also infected with some kind of parasites, bacteria or virus. This is where he begins his treatment.
If you are already having hair loss I would hold off on the albendazole. Just focus on cleaning out your gut. That will be enough for now. I only ever took 2 rounds of albendazole at the request of my Mexican doc. Just take the mebendazole and the herbs in-between.- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
3,139
This is a reply to # 2,057,793Thanks Onwards. The hair loss has been going on since last Nov/Dec. So I'm not sure I want to wait for it to stop. On the other hand, I don't want to over tax my liver either. Such a quandary! My fear is that if I proceed further with just the herbs and mebendazole that further on down the road the albendazole won't be as effective. I don't know if that makes any sense or not. I just want to make sure it gets treated in the right order.
I'm not sure what else I can do to focus on my gut health. Right now I'm taking my digestive enzymes on an empty stomach, then more at meals with a product that includes l glutamine for healing damaged tissue. Am also taking zypan to increase hydrochloric acid. I'm also continuing with the warm water enemas.Any other suggestions?
I was planning on just doing the two six day rounds of albendazole like you did. Then continuing on with the herbs and mebendazole.
- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
3,071
This is a reply to # 2,057,803Hi Onedaysoon- I will answer you here if that is ok. This is not an easy or straight forward task to undertake. I would recommend that you just start with the mebendazole. You have to remember that before I took the albendazole I had been taking herbs for 10 months and doing NB. I would say that my gut was pretty much cleaned out of any visible parasites. The gut is the place to focus on because this is generally where most of a person's major load will be. This is because it is the primary feeding source.
I would really suggest that you research and research and come up with a plan that feels right for you. My inbox is often full of worm questions from people. I have tried to help but sometimes this backfires and they get upset if things don't go the way they had hoped. There are always a couple who report bad side-effects from herbs or the drugs. There are also many, many who don't have these problems. There are always risks to this.
It is often hard to know if a drug or herb is at fault or is it the die-off which can be so severe. I think it is like NB. Is it the cause or the effect?
I sincerely believe that you have the ability to come up with a plan that feels right for you. Deworming takes time no matter what approach a person takes. I am still taking herbs, enzymes and a small amount of drugs. My last lingering problem is mainly the biofilm. I know if I stop treating the biofilm it just keeps growing. The intestinal tract is very long and it takes time to clean it all out. Then there is also the colon. The things that I take act as a secondary immune system. If these are not kept in check than the fatigue returns.
Deworming takes alot of patience and perseverence. This is not fun at all. Left untreated these just keep sucking the life out of sick people. But once you are mostly pathogen free and living normally you will understand how necessary all of this has been. I started here on CZ 4 years ago with Doc Sutter. He cured his own liver cancer. This is his plan which I think is bang on.
1. Straighten out the body- this is what my Mexican healer was doing for me.
2. Clean out the body of chemicals, metals, parasites
3. Eat real food
4. Excercise
I hope you are feeling better today!- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
2,947
This is a reply to # 2,058,073Thanks, Onwards. I'm sorry you are getting bombarded with messages. And of course, ultimately we are all responsible for whatever treatment we decide to undertake. People should not be getting upset with you when you are just trying to help and I'm so sorry that's happening to you.
What you said makes a lot of sense. I know it's going to be a long process, but I look forward to feeling better as time goes on.
I do have a treatment plan that I feel right about, but each time I do more research and starting asking around about this or that it seems my confidence starts shaking. Perhaps the best thing to do is to just stick with my plan and forge ahead. I am very fortunate to have my NB practitioner as well as my GP on board with cleaning out the parasites. One steering me with the herbs and the other with the drugs.
I am feeling a little better yesterday and today, thanks for asking. I think I needed to clear out some toxins and the warm water enema helped to do that
I hope you know how much your help is always appreciated but if ever you feel the need to take a break from it all I hope that you will for your own sanity's sake:)
Take care and enjoy your day:)
- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
12 y
2,853
This is a reply to # 2,058,080Good I'm happy you are feeling better today. Just trust your instincts and the doctor within.
Yes it is good that CZ maintains anonymity. People do not want to openly discuss their chronic infections. Not even on the open CZ forums but prefer the privacy of a pm. That is why people on the FB pages never discuss chronic infections very much. Yet for some it is crucial. I think for many it is easier to be in denial and hope that these issues will go away on their own. I am no longer answering pm's about infections but I will answer on an open forum.
Today it is sunny, beautiful and warm here. I am busy with all kinds of outdoor projects.
Talk soon,
:)- Re: Feeling like death today siagirl
12 y
2,896
This is a reply to # 2,058,084I agree onwards. Chronic infections are so important I just realized this morning that the worming solution my mum sends me from australia (over the counter) for my kids every year is mebandazole. So all these years that is what i have been giving my kids intermittently. I also put oregano oil a few drops in our drinking water. I think about a drop per gallon. Anyways, not sure if the stuff i use for my kids is strong enough but it looks like you can buy the same stuff on american website.
- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
12 y
2,961
This is a reply to # 2,058,124Interesting, Siagirl! That also puts my mind at ease about how necessary these meds are and how they don't all have to have horror stories attached to them!
I've heard a lot about Oregano oil and might be interested in trying it out as part of a maintenance program down the road. Thanks for sharing your positive experience:)
And Onwards, I don't blame you at all for only answering on the public forum instead of PM. I was afraid I was derailing the NB board so that's why I messaged you. And as I said, the parasite board has not been too helpful. But I too feel that chronic infections are part of a good NB program so hopefully there will be more talk of it here, if that's okay with everyone. Thanks again:) Enjoy your day!- Re: Feeling like death today dave505
12 y
2,891
This is a reply to # 2,058,166hi oneday
for me cloves gave a lot of dye-off due to bacteria infections mostly and candida dye-off also. my belief is if one have parasites definitively have candida and bacteria overgrowth. so your dye off could be a combined one not just from parasites - maybe thats why you feel overwhelmed. just my two cents...
do you have any reaction after taking glutamine? ive been reading and experiencing that it may feed protozoan, certain bacteria and even candida besides repairing the gut linning. maybe you should try several days without?
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- Re: Feeling like death today Onwards
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- Re: Feeling like death today onedaysoon
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