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Re: *edited* Re: trying to understand
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Published: 15 years ago
This is a reply to # 275,020

Re: *edited* Re: trying to understand

"Your explanation is very philisophical about eternity and the now."

No, it's not philosophical at all. Infact, quite the opposite.

Let's say someone spends time studying and learning about mechanics, say, cars. Along with the "book knowledge", they also get into the nitty gritty of things and SEE how things work first-hand. They get in there and take things apart and look at how the pieces are interacting and how it all functions. They develop a very solid understanding of the whole thing.

Now, let's say you've never looked under the hood of a car, but you have "knowledge" of some of the functioning of it based on what a friend told you. But, let's say that friend told you that the gasoline passes through the battery! and this is the false understanding you're walking around with.

Now, let's say the mechanic comes along, and starts explaining to you how cars work. He's not quoting from books or other people, he's explaining to you from direct experience. He's "lived" cars for a long time, he's gotten his hands dirty, exploring and learning all the little details and functionality. Now, is his explanation only philosophy, because it differs from your understanding, which was only passed along to you by word of mouth? Is his explanation philosophy, when you yourself have never looked under the hood of a car?

As long as you keep grasping onto pre-existing intellectual concepts ... definitions ... of "now" and "eternity", you'll never see them for what they REALLY are. By their very nature they are BEYOND the intellect and the intellect is not capable of grasping them. The intellect is limited. It needs boundaries. If you want to really understand them, you need to move into them through direct experience, and set the intellect aside. But I've already been through this. Get off the damn diving board, why are you not in the water yet?

"Time can only be perceived by the intellect."

Correct. And actually, time can ONLY exist through the intellect, or more correctly, the mind (the intellect is only one aspect of the mind -- time-perception doesn't necessarily come from the intellect, but it is still of the mind). But the thing is, NOW and ETERNITY are both BEYOND time. This might not make any sense if you're still grasping onto "conceptual models" which are basically wrong ... popular maybe, but wrong.

One of the questions I proposed earlier -- Where does past end and now begin, where does now end and future begin? or in other words, where is the "boundary" between "now" and "past/future"? -- I'll give the answer to, since I suspect you're not exploring it on your own ...

The mind is the birth of past and future. The boundary between "now" and the double-sided "past/future" coin, exists only in the mind. Past and future do not exist, except as "imprints" and visualizations in the mind. But, for the most part, we are living "out of bounds". We are living in the "past/future" realm, as a byproduct of living too much in our minds. By being in the "past/future" realm we completely miss the reality of the "now" realm, which is infact the ONLY reality.

The death of the mind is also the death of past and future. If you want to really see for yourself the nature of "now" and "eternity, which are one and the same, then you need to step out of the mind and into what IS. This is the whole purpose of meditation, and there are thousands of techniques to accomplish this. One of the most popular, is the simple "watching" of the breath. Sit in a comfortable but upright position, and "allow" your body to breath, without your interference. And simply watch it. Be alert and present, watching every minute movement of the breath, every turn and fluxuation. Right now, being in the mind which is the current "state" most people are stuck in, you are a million miles away from yourself. In watching without doing, you come a million and one miles closer to your true nature. You bridge an enormous gap, and then some, in an instant. But you'll never know unless you take the plunge yourself. If you want to know about now and eternity, then MOVE INTO THEM and see for yourself, instead of spouting off some dead concept about them which has only been conditioned into you by others that have no better understanding of it either.

"Are you being serious about your explanations?"

No, not really. :)

I'm playfully enjoying them. You're my friend, and I'm just dissussing with you and sharing "my" understanding. There's nothing serious in that. :) But I assure you I'm not "pulling your leg" or coming up with random nonsense... I'm speaking from direct experience. Whether that "experience" means anything or not, who knows. And really it doesn't matter as far as you're concerned, because even if I have the experience, if you accept my words blindly without "doing the work" yourself and exploring these things yourself, then you've completely missed the point. And also, if you reject them "blindly", without doing the work yourself, then too you still miss the point.

"Why do you have to say that Eternity is Now?"

Because it is. :) I don't *have* to say it, though. Nobody's holding a gun to my head. ;) I'm just telling it like it is. But it probably won't make any sense to you until you move into it and see for yourself. Whether or not you start exploring these ideas yourself, makes no difference to me! It's up to you. If you want to see everything I'm saying as a bunch of nonsense, that's perfectly fine. :)

"Whoa ... are you saying that God didn't even know that He was creating us while we were being created?"

No. He "knows" alright. He just doesn't have to "do" anything in order for it to happen. It's a natural expression of his "being". He is the sun, and we are the rays of light that come automatically as a "result" of the sun's existence. But using the word "result" is bad because it gives the idea that one is the cause, and one is the effect, which is untrue. Intellectually we see the the sun as being the "cause" of its rays, but that's a wrong idea. Really the sun and its rays are one. They are intimitely linked. Just two aspects of one being. In the same way, we are not the "result" of God in a cause & effect way of thinking. Maybe instead of saying we're a "result" of his overflowing-ness, it would be better to say simply that we *ARE* his "overflowing-ness". We are the stream, which *IS* the overflowing-ness of the spring.

"Please give detailed examples of this overflowingness that we seem to be. I see on television rape, murder, theft, drug abuse ... is that part of how we overflow?"

I never said our nature was being expressed, or realized. Simply that it is our nature. But it is in "seed" form. It lies hidden, unknown to most. The "nature" of a tree's seed is "tree-ness", even if the seed is not in the form of a tree yet.

People run around in the world searching for peace and happiness, but they don't realize that they already have the seed in their hands. They just don't see the seed's potential. They don't understand that this dinky little seed will grow into an enormous tree. They don't realize that all they have to do is plant it and nurture it.

In the meantime, until they finally realize the value of seed, they run around searching for these things in the world. And really, what they're searching for is themselves. Somewhere, deep down, they "know" what their true nature is, and that they've strayed from it. That "knowing" is what fuels the search for happiness and fulfillment. They're longing to return to it, they're just looking in the wrong places for it.

They think they'll find fulfillment through "objects", sense pleasures, sex, food, money, social status, etc. They fail to find lasting fulfillment in those things, but instead of saying "this obviously isn't working, let's try another direction", they, subconsciously of course, say "It's there, it must be! I just don't have enough of the 'object' yet, or I need a different 'object'". They continue holding onto this idea that fulfillment will come from world objects. And when they fail to find it, they actually become MORE obsessed with world objects. Someone accumulates money, expecting it to being happiness. But happiness doesn't come. So instead of dropping the idea of searching for happiness in money, they say "I just haven't accumulated enough money to realize the happiness!" This is maddening, isn't it? It doesn't make any sense! But it's what's happening all over the world. People become ravenous, like rabid monsters. Obsessed with objects, sense pleasures and experiences. This obsessive behaviour naturally leads to "evils". "Getting" becomes so important, that they'll even exploit another person in order to "get", all in this basic search for fulfillment. Theft, rape, addiction, murder, etc. all arise from this ravenous obsession.

The entire world is going crazy, all because of this belief that happiness can be found "in the world". But everything can change if people would realize that the happiness is already there within themselves. Their "true nature" is there, buried deep, under many coverings, they just need to change the direction in which they're searching.

People say money is the root of all evil. I say the root of all evil is in not knowing yourself.

"I'm very curious to what evidence you have regarding your statements. Where are you getting this information about eternity and now? What authority are you stating that God created us as a by-product of His love?"

I *AM* the evidence. I *AM* the information, the eternity, and the now. I'm not "getting" the information from anywhere. It's all within. I'm only explaining "My Being", which just so happens to be yours as well. Don't you feel lucky? :)

As for authority, it really depends on what you think denotes authority. If you think having direct experience and understanding about something denotes authority, then that IS my authority. I am an "authority" on "myself". My authority is the fact that I know what I know, and I know that I know what I know. Ya know? Or, more simply, I know myself.

But if you think authority comes from some external entity or organization, that it's something that has to be "given" or handed to you, then I have absolutely no authority. Good thing I never claimed to, eh? :)

But the whole idea of being an authority of a subject is incredibly stupid. Let someone's words and understandings speak for themself. See them as they are, and take them as inspiration or "guidance", but don't accept them blindly. Don't base your "knowledge" solely on someone else's information or experiences. Do your own exploring and experimenting. Become your own authority. Nobody else can do it for you.

"I'm hearing from you what seems to be an over-simplification of God's character."

What makes you think God is complicated? :)



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