The Truth about Soy Foods The Truth about Soy Foods
The Truth about Soy Foods 
Dquixote1217
16 y
11,041
† Cross †
This "Miracle Health Food" Has Been Linked to Brain Damage and Breast Cancer by Dr. Mercola
If you were to carefully review the thousands of studies published on soy, I strongly believe you would reach the same conclusion as I have—which is, the risks of consuming unfermented soy products FAR outweigh any possible benefits. Notice I said unfermented soy products. For centuries, Asian people have been consuming fermented soy products such as natto, tempeh, and soy sauce, and enjoying the health benefits. Fermented soy does not wreak havoc on your body like unfermented soy products do. Unfortunately, many Americans who are committed to healthy lifestyles have been hoodwinked and manipulated into believing that unfermented and processed soy products like soymilk, soy cheese, soy burgers and soy ice cream are good for them. If it seems like soy foods appeared out of nowhere to be regarded as the “miracle health food” of the 21st Century, it’s because they did. From 1992 to 2006, soy food sales increased from $300 million to nearly $4 billion, practically overnight, according to the Soyfoods Association of North America. This growth came about due to a massive shift in attitudes about soy. And this shift was no accident—it was the result of a massive investment in advertising by the soy industry that’s been wildly successful. Soy is indeed big business, very big business. From 2000 to 2007, U.S. food manufacturers introduced more than 2,700 new soy-based foods, and new soy products continue to appear on your grocer’s shelves. According to the survey Consumer Attitudes About Nutrition 2008 (by the United Soybean Board): This is a tragic case of shrewd marketing and outright lies taking root among the masses with the end result of producing large profits for the soy industry and impaired health for most who have been deceived into using unfermented soy long-term.. As you can see from the extensive list of articles below, there is a large amount of scientific research showing that soy is not the nutritional panacea of the 21st Century. The vast majority of soy at your local market is not a health food. The exception is fermented soy, which I’ll explain more about later and even worse GMO soy that is contaminated with large pesticide residues as the reason it is GMO is so they can spray the potent toxic herbicide Roundup on them to improve crop production by killing the weeds. Unlike the Asian culture, where people eat small amounts of whole non-GMO soybean products, western food processors separate the soybean into two golden commodities—protein and oil. And there is nothing natural or safe about these products. Dr. Kaayla Daniel, author of The Whole Soy Story, points out thousands of studies linking soy to malnutrition, digestive distress, immune-system breakdown, thyroid dysfunction, cognitive decline, reproductive disorders and infertility—even cancer and heart disease. Here is just a sampling of the health effects that have been linked to soy consumption: Soy proponents will argue that soy-based foods (they lump the fermented ones with the unfermented) will protect you from everything from colon, prostate and breast cancer to strokes, osteoporosis, and asthma. But said enthusiasts never mention the studies that illuminate soy’s downside and all of the dangers posed to your health, which are based on sound research. Another unfortunate fact is that 80 percent of the world’s soy is used in farm animal feed, which is why soy production is contributing to deforestation. Some soy propagandists have suggested that the solution to this is for all of us to become vegetarians—a reckless recommendation rooted in total ignorance about nutrition—whereas a far better solution is a major overhaul in how farm animals are fed and raised. Here is a summary of soy’s most glaring problems. GM soy has been linked to an increase in allergies. Disturbingly, the only published human feeding study on GM foods ever conducted verified that the gene inserted into GM soy transfers into the DNA of our gut bacteria and continues to function. This means that years after you stop eating GM soy, you may still have a potentially allergenic protein continuously being produced in your intestines. Even more frightening is the potential for GM soy to cause infertility in future generations, which has been evidenced by recent Russian research. Soy foods contain anti-nutritional factors such as saponins, soyatoxin, phytates, protease inhibitors, oxalates, goitrogens and estrogens. Some of these factors interfere with the enzymes you need to digest protein. While a small amount of anti-nutrients would not likely cause a problem, the amount of soy that many Americans are now eating is extremely high. Hemagglutinin is a clot-promoting substance that causes your red blood cells to clump together. These clumped cells are unable to properly absorb and distribute oxygen to your tissues. Goitrogens are substances that block the synthesis of thyroid hormones and interfere with iodine metabolism, thereby interfering with your thyroid function. Phytates (phytic acid) bind to metal ions, preventing the absorption of certain minerals, including calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc -- all of which are co-factors for optimal biochemistry in your body. This is particularly problematic for vegetarians, because eating meat reduces the mineral-blocking effects of these phytates (so it is helpful—if you do eat soy—to also eat meat). Isoflavones are a type of phytoestrogen, which is a plant compound resembling human estrogen. These compounds mimic and sometimes block the hormone estrogen, and have been found to have adverse effects on various human tissues. Soy phytoestrogens are known to disrupt endocrine function, may cause infertility, and may promote breast cancer in women. Drinking even two glasses of soymilk daily for one month provides enough of these compounds to alter your menstrual cycle. Although the FDA regulates estrogen-containing products, no warnings exist on soy. Soybeans are processed (by acid washing) in aluminum tanks, which can leach high levels of aluminum into the final soy product. Soy formula has up to 80 times higher manganese than is found in human breast milk. Nearly 20 percent of U.S. infants are now fed soy formula, but the estrogens in soy can irreversibly harm your baby’s sexua| development and reproductive health. Infants fed soy formula take in an estimated five birth control pills’ worth of estrogen every day. Infants fed soy formula have up to 20,000 times the amount of estrogen in circulation as those fed other formulas! There is also the issue of pesticides and genetic modification. Soy foods are both heavily sprayed with pesticides and genetically modified (GM). More than 80 percent of the soy grown in the United States is GM. And more than 90 percent of American soy crops are GM. Since the introduction of GM foods in 1996, we’ve had an upsurge in low birth weight babies, infertility, and other problems in the U.S. population, and animal studies thus far have shown devastating effects from consuming GM soy. You may want to steer clear of soy products for no other reason than a commitment to avoiding GM foods... unless you wish to be a lab animal for this massive uncontrolled experiment by the biotech industry. I want to be clear that I am not opposed to all soy. Soy can be incredibly healthful, but ONLY if it is organic and properly fermented. After a long fermentation process, the phytate and “anti-nutrient” levels of soybeans are reduced, and their beneficial properties become available to your digestive system. You may have heard that Japanese people live longer and have lower rates of cancer than Americans because they eat so much soy—but it’s primarily fermented soy that they consume, and it’s always been that way. Fermented soy products are the only ones I recommend consuming. These are the primary fermented soy products you’ll find: Please note that tofu is NOT on this list. Tofu is not fermented, so is not among the soy foods I recommend. One of the main benefits of fermented soy, especially natto, is that it is the best food source of vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 is essential to preventing osteoporosis, cardiovascular disease, and diseases of the brain such as dementia, and protecting you from various cancers including prostate, lung, liver cancer and leukemia. Vitamin K acts synergistically with vitamin D to keep you healthy. Vitamin K is sometimes referred to as the “forgotten vitamin” because its benefits are often overlooked. It was named after the word “Koagulation,” to reflect its essential role in blood clotting. In fact, the enzyme nattokinase—derived from natto—is safer and more powerful than aspirin in dissolving blood clots, and has been used safely for more than 20 years. If you enjoy natto or some of the other fermented soy foods, you can get several milligrams of vitamin K2 from them each day (this level far exceeds the amount of vitamin K2 found even in dark green vegetables). Unfortunately, the health benefits of many of the fermented soy foods fall by the wayside because many Americans do not enjoy their flavor. If you don’t want to consume natto to get your vitamin K2, the next best thing would be to get use supplemental Vitamin K2 (MK-7). Remember, vitamin K must be taken with a source of fat in order to be absorbed. I suggest adults consume about 150 mcg of vitamin K2 daily. For a simple rule of thumb, just remember that unless soy is fermented (tempeh, miso, natto, or traditionally made soy sauce), you’re better off avoiding it. Soy foods to avoid include: Tofu TVP (texturized vegetable protein) or soy protein isolate, which contains a large amount of msg, which you should definitely not consume The best way to eliminate non-fermented soy from your diet is to avoid all processed foods and instead purchase whole foods that you prepare yourself. If you do buy packaged foods, you can check the label to see if it contains soy. The Food Allergen Labeling and Consumer Protection Act, which took effect in January 2006, requires that food manufacturers list soy on the label, because it’s one of the top eight food allergens. So, even if soy is hidden in colors, flavors, or spice blends added to foods, it must be clearly stated on the label. One other common source of soy is lecithin which is used as a emulsifier in many foods and supplements. Most lecithin in the US is derived from soy but there are some newer products that extract it from organic sunflower. We switched over to the organic sunflower lecithin a few years ago in all of our products. If you wish to know more about soy, I have provided a list of links below to the many articles I’ve posted over the years on this subject. Remember, the only way to avoid falling victim to shrewd marketing and misinformation is to become knowledgeable about what the research actually says, and this is often different from what is commonly passed around as “fact.” Newest Research On Why You Should Avoid Soy Which Veggie Burgers Were Made With a Neurotoxin? Why Soy Is NOT the Health Food You Think it Is The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food More Evidence Soy is Not as Healthy as Originally Believed Experts Finally Recognize The Dangers With Soy Soy Myth Exposed: Soy is Not a Health Food What You Don't Know About America's Favorite Health Food Think Soy is Healthy? Here’s Why it’s Not as Good as You Think Soy Milk is Gaining Popularity in America Researchers Take a Second Look at Soy Foods Response To Those Who Believe Soy Is Healthy They're Taking The Joy Out Of Soy ABC News does special on soy Friday. (Special on 20/20 about dangers of soy) Learn the Truth About Soy. Just How Much Soy Do Asians Eat? Pregnant Women Should Not Eat Soy Products Soy Weakens Your Immune System Soy is an Endocrine Disrupter and Can Disrupt Your Child’s Health Which Infant Formulas Contain Hidden Toxic Chemicals? Soy Formula Exposes Infants To High Hormone Levels Finally Infant Soy Formula Under Investigation Healthy Alternative to Conventional Infant Formula, Part I Soy Formula May Stunt the Intestinal Growth in Your Baby Soy Formula Kills Three Babies Soy Baby Formula Linked to Behavioral Problems Experts Dispute JAMA Soy Infant Formula Study Australian Pediatric Soy Protein Formula Policy Soy Milk Is Safe! That Is What the Formula Industry Says Responses to Manganese in Soy Infant Formula Article How Safe is Soy Infant Formula? Learn the Truth About Soy. Just How Much Soy Do Asians Eat? Genetically Engineered Soybeans May Cause Allergies Monsanto Under Investigation by Seven U.S. States Why Silk Soy Milk's Parent Company is Throwing American Farmers and Consumers Under the Bus Weston A. Price Foundation to FDA: Soy is No Health Food Research Uncovers Yet Another Soy Myth Soy 'Miracle' Turns Bad in Argentina If You're Suffering From a Medical Problem Caused by Soy, You May Now be Able to Take Lega Scientists Protest Soy Approval Soy Supplements Fail to Help Menopause Symptoms Soy Has Little, if Any, Effect on Heart Disease, Hot Flashes Eating Soy Can Decrease Your Fertility Soy-Based Foods No Good As A Hormone Replacement What Works Better for Hormones--Soy or Flax? Soy Supplements can Decrease sexua| Behavior Chemical in Soybeans Causes sexua| Dysfunction in Male Rats Caution Urged on Soy Menopause Remedies Even Cheetahs Can’t Tolerate Soybeans Doubt Cast On Soy for Menopause Cancer, Heart Health: Making Sense of Soy Study Doubts Soy For Hot Flashes-Supplements May Not Work Fatigue, Dry Skin, Gaining Weight? See Why You'd Better Check Your Thyroid! Soy Formulas and the Effects of Isoflavones on the Thyroid Too Much Tofu Induces Brain Aging Soy May Cause Cancer and Brain Damage Soy Has Little, if Any, Effect on Heart Disease, Hot Flashes Soy No Help to Women With Heart Disease Prevention Soy Can Increase Heart Disease Risk Soy Maker Omits Studies That Soy May Cause Cancer Certain Soy and Oyster Sauces Containing Cancer-Causing Chemicals Experts Concerned About Soy and Breast Cancer Soy May Cause Cancer and Brain Damage Genetically Engineered Soybeans May Cause Allergies Soy Can Cause Severe Allergic Reactions Rebuttal to Seriously Confused Soy Enthusiast Don’t Be Fooled--Calcium Content in Soy and Rice Milk Misleading 
The Truth about Soy Foods How Did Soy Foods Become So Popular?
The Dark Side of Soy
What Makes Soy Such a Risky Food to Eat?
What Soy Products are Good For You?
Vitamin K2: One of the Major Benefits of Fermented Soy
Tips for Avoiding Unwanted Soy Foods
Soy is NOT a Health Food
The Danger of Soy for Infants, Children and Pregnant Women
How Soy Infant Formulas Can Devastate Your Child’s Health
Government and Agribusiness Shenanigans
Soy and Your Reproductive System
Soy and Your Thyroid
Soy and Your Brain
Soy and Your Heart
Soy and Your Kidneys
Soy and Cancer Risk
Soy and Allergies
Other Soy Issues
This is one of those areas where Mercola and I would really butt heads. Mercola has left out many facts that prove many of his claims wrong. For example many of the compounds he claims are dangerous is soy are not only destroyed by fermentation, but also by cooking. How many soy products are on the market that are not either cooked and/or fermented? I cannot think of any.
Then he makes the claim:
"Soy contains natural toxins known as “anti-nutrients.
Soy foods contain anti-nutritional factors such as saponins, soyatoxin, phytates, protease inhibitors, oxalates, goitrogens and estrogens. Some of these factors interfere with the enzymes you need to digest protein. While a small amount of anti-nutrients would not likely cause a problem, the amount of soy that many Americans are now eating is extremely high."
Starting with saponins, saponins ARE NOT antinutrients. In fact just the opposite. Saponins are soap-like molecules found in various plants. They act as surfactants and increase cell wall permeability INCREASING the absorption of nutrients. Saponins also provide other benefits including killing cancer cells, killing Candida, lowering cholesterol, decreasing inflammation, etc.
Soyatoxin is inactivated by cooking. Even without cooking the amount of soyatoxin in soy is actually very low. And its effects are blood clotting. So does Mercola advise against eating green leafy vegetables since they also promote blood clotting?
Phytates. I addressed this myth numerous times:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1542754#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1626045#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1485942
Protease inhibitors are antivirals.
Oxalic acid is found in small amounts in soy. And int is found in foods such as garlic, collard greens, kale, chives, beet greens, parsley, amaranth, spinach, broccoli, beans, asparagus, cabbage, onions, tomatoes, radishes, turnips, squash, etc. It is interesting that in Mercola's recommended diet he mentions spinach being a good choice. So why is he not worried about the oxalic acid is the spinach? Does he really think that the oxalic acid in spinach is somehow chemically different that the oxalic acid is soy? They are not.
And the phytic acid Mercola was complaining about counter calcium oxalate formation:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1474016#i
This is common thing that most bashers of soy and other things overlook. Isolated compounds do not always have the same effects as compounds found in whole foods. If I wanted to prove that alfalfa was dangerous all I would have to do is isolate the coumarins from the alfalfa and inject high levels in to an animal. If the plant is given in its whole form though the vitamin K in the alfalfa will counter the blood thinning effects of the coumarin. So to claim isolated toxins are the same as toxins in a plant, which are often countered by other compounds is ludicrous. If we used that basis we could claim that virtually all foods are toxic since we can find something that could be classified as a toxin in most if not all foods.
In addition Mercola advocates high doses of vitamin C. Problem is that the body cannot utilize high doses of vitamin C and the excess vitamin C is broken down in the toxin he is complaining about oxalic acid. So why is he bashing soy when you will end up getting more oxalic acid from the high doses of the vitamin C he recommends. This is the problem when people just keep repeating the same old misinformation without doing the research.
As for goitrogens and estrogens again he is not telling the whole truth. First of all soy DOES NOT contain estrogens. Soy contains phytoestrogens, which are not true estrogens. And it is the phytoestrogens in soy that are the goitrogens. So they are not two separate things, but one thing. And again both fermentation and cooking lower the phytoestrogen levels, which is why I also find it interesting that Mercola recommends eating most of your fruits and vegetables raw. After all if he is going to claim that phytoestrogens are dangerous then you would have to stop eating plants altogether since all plants contain either phytoestrogens and/or other flavonoids that have the same effects as phytoestrogens. And eating these foods raw as he says you should do would increase the risk since heat breaks down the phytoestrogens. More on phytoestrogens:
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1443251#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1561230#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1548512#i
In addition Mercola refers to flax seeds as "a wonderful food". Yet flax seed is over 200 times higher in the phytoestrogens that he calls a toxin and goitrogen than soy. In addition flax contains toxic and goitrogenic cyanogens. So why the double standard?
And another Mercola claim:
What Mercola did not mention is that cooking again inactivates hemagglutinin. And hemagglutinin is also found in other sources such as beans and peas.
Soybeans are processed (by acid washing) in aluminum tanks, which can leach high levels of aluminum into the final soy product. Soy formula has up to 80 times higher manganese than is found in human breast milk.
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1442774#i
http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1498735#i
As for the manganese the content is about 600 microgram per liter of soy milk. Yet doctor recommended intake of manganese is 5-11 grams per day. That means you would have to drink at least several gallons of soy milk daily to even meet the minimum requirements. So why is Mercola even stressing over this? What is even funnier is that if he claims that soy is full of anti-nutrients such as phytic acid that would bind some of the manganese according to the anti-soy proponents then there is even less of a rick of manganese poisoning. So the are contradicting their own arguments again. And again Mercola claims that flax seed is an excellent food even though it contains 3mg of manganese per 100 grams Mercola also recommends green tea for health yet it contains 670 micrograms of manganese per gram. Since soybeans only contain about 1mg of manganese per 100g this means it is much lower in the manganese Mercola is worried about than the foods Mercola is saying are healthy.
Therefore if Mercola is going to contradict his own claims with his own claims then why should we take any of these claims seriously?
I have no intention of getting into an extended debate with you (most of us, including myself, have seen where THAT can lead!), but will only say that I continue to find your stubborn defense of soy to be inconsistent with your stated position of being in favor of natural healing. Putting all other arguments aside, the mere fact that 91% of all soy used in the US is genetically modified should be reason enough to avoid soy, as GMO foods which are engineered to withstand Roundup and/or produce their own pesticides are anything but natural.
We have been around this loop before so let us leave that there. A simple question:
"Does anyone know why asian communities did not eat unfermented soy products up until recently?
This is not a recent practice. Fermenting foods, including soy, has been done for centuries. One of the reasons is because acids kill most pathogens, so it was a means of preserving foods.
Becuase it is not healthy and it is heard to digest. it is akin to plastic. If you put it out in front of animals they will not eat it. Only humans do when highly advertised to. ;-)
Where do people come up with this crap?!!!!
I have no intention of getting into an extended debate with you (most of us, including myself, have seen where THAT can lead!), but will only say that I continue to find your stubborn defense of soy to be inonsistent with your stated position of being in favor of natural healing. Putting all other arguments aside, the mere fact that 91% of all soy used in the US is genetically modified should be reason enough to avoid soy, as GMO foods which are engineered to withstand Roundup and/or produce their own pesticides are anything but natural.
Soy is hardly the only crop genetically modified. And most anything we eat is going to have issues. For instance do realize that most of our crops are loaded with lead? Or that they preserve apples with arsenic? I don't like the Idea of GMO either, but there are plenty of things I worry about a lot more in our food supply than GMO.
By the way since you want to debate natural healing, how natural is your oleander tea? Where in nature do you find oleander tea with the toxic cardiac glycosides removed? So I guess you are not in to natural healing either.
By the way since you want to debate natural healing, how natural is your oleander tea? Where in nature do you find oleander tea with the toxic cardiac glycosides removed? So I guess you are not in to natural healing either.
That's right, H. When your opinion is opposed to the huge bulk of evidence and other opinion and you have insufficient pick-and-choose studies to try to support your own illogically biased and unsupported opinions, such as is the case in GMO and unfermented soy, result to low blows against your opponent.
Mankind has been boiling, straining and condensing natural plants and preparing foods and herbs that would otherwise be toxic in their raw state for thousands of years. Virtually no herbal extract is the same as the natural plant item found in nature. Boiling fails to get all the non-water soluable compounds and alchohol/ethanol extraction often results in water soluable compounds precipitating out.
Oleander itself has been used medicinally for thousands of years, and that includes oleander that was boiled and strained (thus removing much of the cardiac glysocide content). That is natural oleander, H, not oleander which has been genetically modified to withstand heavy herbicides, or which has been sprayed with herbicides or pesticides.
Therefore I would submit that my support of oleander extract is much more in keeping with supporting natural healing than is your support of a product that stands a 91% chance of being genetically modified. Notice also, that I did not say that you did not support natural healing, only that I find your stance on soy to be inconsistent with supporting natural healing.
My record of supporting natual healing speaks for itself, as you well know. But you just can't help yourself from such behavior when someone dares post anything that you don't agree with, can you? And YOU complain about malcontents running people off CureZone?
Not one of your finest examples of "the truth in medicine", H.
(Translation: while I try to remain on peaceful terms with you and refrain from getting involved in prolonged debate with you, that does not mean that I will remain silent when you take low blows).
By the way since you want to debate natural healing, how natural is your oleander tea? Where in nature do you find oleander tea with the toxic cardiac glycosides removed? So I guess you are not in to natural healing either.
That's right, H. When your opinion is opposed to the huge bulk of evidence and other opinion and you have insufficient pick-and-choose studies to try to support your own illogically biased and unsupported opinions, such as is the case in GMO and unfermented soy, result to low blows against your opponent.
You are really over sensitive I see. What I pointed out was not a low blow or a cheap shot as you put it. It was a FACT, although the point was to show that what someone considers "natural" is a matter of perception. Your oleander tea is not natural since it has been altered from the way nature made it. So don't blame me because you overlooked that fact before deciding to act like a little snot!!!
And just because something is not natural does not mean it does not work. You know that I feel ozone is the most effective cancer therapy ever devised. And there is the science to back it. Yet cancer is not being cured by going out in to the sun to inhale the ozone. The ozone is being artificially made, primarily by high voltage electric discharge. So the ozone is not natural, yet it can kill cancer by peroxide formation, destruction of carcinogens, stimulation of cytokines, stimulation of SOD production and by activation of white blood cells by the peroxides formed. And all with one of the best safety records of all therapies out there. As study done in Germany followed over 6.5 million applications. There were just over 32 adverse reactions reported, mostly minor such as pain at the injection site.
So I never claimed to be in to "natural medicines". I deal with alternative medicines that work.
By the way do you recall that we butted heads when I first came to Curezone? Why? Because you were telling people to drink oleander tea for their cancer and whatever with no warning that the tea has to be made a specific way so it does not kill the person from the cardiac glycosides. If someone decided to just go pick some oleander leaves to make a tea they would not survive long enough to take a second drink. So don't try lecturing me on safety.
I realize you do not like soy, as many chicken littles who have bought in to the false soy propaganda also do not like. But this is no reason to start with the personal attacks.
Mankind has been boiling, straining and condensing natural plants and preparing foods and herbs that would otherwise be toxic in their raw state for thousands of years.
And this does not make them natural. If they are otherwise toxic that means their NATURAL chemistry has been altered to render them safe. This is not that hard of a concept to understand. So if you want to preach about "natural healing" then practice it yourself.
My record of supporting natual healing speaks for itself, as you well know. But you just can't help yourself from such behavior when someone dares post anything that you don't agree with, can you?
Who started the personal attacks on this thread? Oh, that's right, it was you. So in essence you are saying to do as you say, not as you do.
And YOU complain about malcontents running people off CureZone?
And again I never start the attacks. But I will respond in a manner in which I am treated since this tells me that this is what the person understands. Same principle of how children that are abused often become abusers themselves since this is what they grow up understanding.
Not one of your finest examples of "the truth in medicine", H.
Keep up with the personal attacks Dquixote, seems like the only thing you really understand.
I expected just such a response, name calling and all. It is, after all, you abundant history to respond in just such a manner.
I have said my piece and you can feel free to plunge deeper along the low road as you wish. I will, however, point out that when you came to CZ, I was not, nor have I ever been, telling people to simply make oleander tea and drink it. I will concede that it is important to note that oleander is a toxic plant in raw form and that no one should try to make their own extract without knowing what they were doing and exercising cautions; however, I had, in fact, referred solely to homemade "oleander soup", which I had posted detailed instructions on how to make at home safely long before you graced us with your presence.
Not that you will listen, but my advice is to realize that people are not always going to accept you as the ultimate authority on all things having to do with healing and at times there will be disagreements with what you post or believe - so stop being so damned sensitive and let it go now and then, H. IMO, a person who is truly confident in what they post to begin with does not have to argue on and on and on, nor do they have to resort to slurs and personal attacks, to prove their original point.
Re: When facts won't work, resort to... Hveragerthi
16 y
10,265
I expected just such a response, name calling and all. It is, after all, you abundant history to respond in just such a manner.
LOL!!! You really are a piece of work. YOU start out immediately with your first response with an attack. Then you have the turn the blame on me over an over. I suppose you also punched your siblings when you were younger then ran to momma to accuse them of starting it. And you apparently never outgrew this tactic.
I have said my piece and you can feel free to plunge deeper along the low road as you wish. I will, however, point out that when you came to CZ, I was not, nor have I ever been, telling people to simply make oleander tea and drink it. I will concede that it is important to note that oleander is a toxic plant in raw form and that no one should try to make their own extract without knowing what they were doing and exercising cautions; however, I had, in fact, referred solely to homemade "oleander soup", which I had posted detailed instructions on how to make at home safely long before you graced us with your presence.
Go back and read my posts on oleander. We had this safety discussion about oleander over a year ago when it was being touted as a cancer cure with NO safety information being presented. That is why I brought up the safety issue, because just telling people to drink oleander tea would end up killing them considering how toxic oleander is.
Personally I don't know why you are so insistent on pushing oleander anyway. If it is the polysaccharides in the oleander that help boost the immune system why not promote safer sources of immune stimulating polysaccharides? For example medicinal mushrooms and seaweeds, myrrh (also a hyaluronisade inhibitor and antimicrobial giving additional anti-cancer benefits), astragalus, schisandra, echinacea (also a hyaluronidase inhibitor), marshmallow root, birch (also a source of anti-cancer betulinic acid), etc.
Furthermore, there are so many other aspects of cancer that need to be addressed than white blood cell stimulation by polysaccharides. For example hyaluronidase inhibition to prevent metastases, destruction of cancer microbes, elevation of cytokines, repair of bone marrow, angiogenesis inhibition, mitosis inhibition, blocking the glucose-lactic acid cycle, etc. Oleander is hardly the magic anti-cancer treatment you make it out to be. There are many safer and more effective treatments out there that address so many more aspect of cancer.
Not that you will listen, but my advice is to realize that people are not always going to accept you as the ultimate authority on all things having to do with healing and at times
Never claimed I was. Nice to see that this is what comes to mind though when you think of me. Thanks.
there will be disagreements with what you post or believe
Well duh, took you this long to figure that out?
- so stop being so damned sensitive and let it go now and then, H.
Who is being sensitive? YOU are the one that overreacted in response to my post starting the attacks. So I must have stepped on your last nerve too hard even though the post had NOTHING to do with you. I thought you must have forgot to take your PMS medication or something the way you overreacted.
IMO, a person who is truly confident in what they post to begin with does not have to argue on and on and on, nor do they have to resort to slurs and personal attacks, to prove their original point.
Again my first post in this thread has NOTHING to do with you. Yet you responded with personal attacks against me. So according to your own statement you are severely lacking in confidence. Well, at least I have learned a lot about you in this thread, although more than I care to know!!!!!! By the way I can give you a list of supplements for you hyperaggression if you ever decide to do something about it.
This thread started when I posted a Mercola article about soy dangers. You responded to that post with a defense of soy as you usually do. I then observed that your defense of soy seemed incongruous with your general stance, given the dangers of GMO and the high GM content of soy. Then you went on the typical attack and tirade routine that has been your history when anyone dares disagree with you.
Let it go, H. You are merely proving that you are your own worst enemy here.
This thread started when I posted a Mercola article about soy dangers.
Which had nothing to do with you personally.
You responded to that post with a defense of soy as you usually do.
Which had nothing to do with you personally.
I then observed that your defense of soy seemed incongruous with your general stance, given the dangers of GMO and the high GM content of soy.
So YOU decided to respond with personal attacks instead of letting me state my view, which WAS NOT a personal attack.
Then you went on the typical attack and tirade routine
LOL!!!!! You discredit yourself more and more each time you try to blame me for starting the attacks. It just proves how far you will go to feed your agenda. Which makes me wonder how much you have lied about the benefits of oleander since we are seeing a pattern in you of lying when it fits your needs.
that has been your history when anyone dares disagree with you.
More lies. Just read my forum and see how many people who have disagreed with me. Yet we have civil discussions about the disagreements because unlike you who likes to lie to hide your violations these people don't come at me with personal attacks. You on the other hand started the personal attacks and have lied about it with every post since.
Let it go, H. You are merely proving that you are your own worst enemy here.
Let what go? Your obsession with attacking people first then blaming the victim?!!! Sorry, but I don't control your actions. You need to let your own bad behavior go.
Maybe we need a new forum for those who take offense at any post that dares disagree with them, resort to cheap shots and slurs and have to get in the last word no matter what?
Maybe we need a new forum for those who take offense at any post that dares disagree with them, resort to cheap shots and slurs and have to get in the last word no matter what?
Well of course you want your own forum. That way people cannot respond with facts like I did and you can get away with attacking those who disagree with you just as you did in this thread.
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